The Nature of Impermanence on Technology, Relationships, History, and Daily Life
Host: Eric Chow · Guest: Sam Lin · February 19, 2020 · Episode 26 · 63 minutes
Transcribed from the episode audio and edited for names and terms. Speaker labels are assigned automatically and can occasionally place a line with the wrong speaker; the episode itself is the record.
Eric Chow
What is up everybody? Welcome to this episode of the Eric Chow Empowers Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm so excited to let you listen to this episode. I've been waiting for this to come out, but before I let you do that, I want to ask for a favor that honestly in part is just you doing your own thing, which is pay attention to what you're finding, particularly interesting, valuable, useful. Entertaining you know, I think the podcast overall is is meant to Provide value, but I really want to know what exactly from the episode You know in terms of topics in terms of things being said in terms of what?
Stories and experiences are being shared. What are you enjoying from the podcast? What is particularly valuable for you so that you know I can better provide that So if there's anything that does stand out to you, anything that you really do enjoy, please let me know, even if you think it's small, even if you think that it's not important to tell me. I promise you every bit of feedback is valuable for me. So let me know, message me, tweet me, post a story, something on Instagram and Twitter at underscore chowerrick. Now to the episode that you are waiting to listen to. Enjoy. You were on episode 15 with Christian, I think, or 16.
I don't know. I think it's 15, whatever. I don't listen to you. Thanks, bro. But you're back and you want to talk about... What did you want to talk about?
Sam Lin
What did I want to talk about? I'm joking. I wanted to talk about how basically just the idea of impermanence and how a lot of things around us and our daily lives are always changing and it's not necessarily something bad or something good but it's something that we have to learn to accept.
Eric Chow
I agree with you. I agree with you. I think a lot of people are afraid of like change just in general. They're like, oh shit, I'm going to a new school or fuck, I'm moving. I don't know. Or they get so excited when they have like a new phone but like it's the same, it's like it's a phone.
Sam Lin
You know, yeah, let's pick me a phone so like this one on the topic would change Yeah, I think it's wild that like if you think about it, right? We're in 2020.
Eric Chow
Yeah, but if you rewind holy shit, well, it's not 2018 If you rewind 20 years our phones didn't exist very true if you're right 20 more years phones didn't exist at all Did they don't know fucking 1980 and I think yeah phones existed just not smartphone.
Sam Lin
Yeah, well Yeah, and you run even more you realize that cars haven't existed and you won't even more you realize that Like a lot of things around us has changed especially our technology, right? Which is most prominent right but also our communication skills have changed. That's true a lot of us like in these days have So so anxiety mm-hmm like I do and then we also suffer like like our generation has like the highest rate of depression Yep, and it's a we can sometimes play with on technology But I think we do that because we often see ourselves looking down at the screen and talking that way instead of looking up and Talking to each other face to face like one of my favorite quotes from a song is Societies, anxiety, the pride plus of others were blessed with.
Eric Chow
Hmm. Societies, anxiety, the prives of others were blessed with. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's just as simple as like the classic, like, hey, you know, people are on the dinner table, there are people in fucking elevator or some shit, waiting for something and they pull out their phones instead of talking. And you don't have to talk to everybody, obviously. But yeah, like... Maybe that does contribute to social anxiety because people aren't used to it anymore What age did you get your first phone by the way? I think I got mine's I'm like 14. Yeah, I think I got about the same time. Yeah You know what was sad about mine though, and maybe this is why I don't know When I got mine right And then some shit happened.
I don't know if I don't remember what happened exactly I don't know if I got grounded or some up phone like it's not working or something but for some reason I got my phone for a while and then it got taken away for a while So I was just like well fuck So I never I didn't really get a chance at that time till I get used to it So I had to do other shit I had to figure out the fucking other things But I mean in a way that's good cuz like a lot of us don't realize that
Sam Lin
when we get our phones, like no matter what age it is, it changes our lives, like dramatically. So like for me, when I got my phone, what changed was not only my ability to communicate with other people now over life, but it also allowed me to basically live my whole life, like call and call on my phone. And instead of, oh, I just now start focusing on that's daily stuff that we normally do without our phones, our chores, our homework, like... Just taking care of our well-being instead we now worry about like oh What is going on online? What's going on with my friends and we want to check that out?
Eric Chow
You know what I also think that that reminds me it makes me think of like I think I think like people because they're like checking their phones and everything and There's there's like that idea of like I want to see what's going on on the internet or whatever There's this constant in motion like that we put our brains through so like we're always like Okay, I'm not doing this thing. I gotta do this thing I gotta do this thing too and then like even when you're doing something like homework or choice you can never most people They don't just do homework and choice. They also have music or a pod gat or a video or something going on else That's using the internet They're always like everyone's so reliant on that and also Using that so much that they don't take the time to just spend time with themselves or spend time away from their phones and with people or they're just like constantly thinking about the next thing.
Like it's that especially in cities, it's like that busy lifestyle like, hey, I'm doing this and this and this and this and this and I felt that way plenty of times like broke my favorite example right now is last Thursday fucking three to nine p.m. six hours. I don't think there was a moment where I said Hey, I got two minutes. That's how busy I was. That has nothing to do with my example because that's nothing to do with my phone at all. But it just came from my... That's nothing to do with my phone at all. But like, that's the kind of lifestyle that we start putting ourselves through.
Even though like that had nothing, that situation had nothing to do with my phone. That's the sort of way we're thinking now because we're like, oh, I have a moment. I'm gonna check fucking Instagram or I'm gonna go on Twitter or you don't want fucking... I don't know, YouTube fucking read it and look up memes or whatever. It's so easy for us to do that now. So I think that that's what you were saying reminded me of.
Sam Lin
I think what also we failed to realize is a lot of things while we're staying down at our phones or while we're being absorbed inside of the internet. A lot of things like in the real world are still changing. Like for instance... I don't remember when, but you know the Union Landing bus station?
Eric Chow
Yes. Yeah, that used to not be there. And then the I fly in front of it used to not be there. I remember that. I remember that, but I don't remember what used to be there. And maybe because I was young at that age or because I had my phone, but it was one where a few days ago I literally looked up and was like, oh, hey, this all day it used to be here. And I don't remember when anything here changed. Yeah. My dad is like like this is like kind of good at that like every time we go to a place that we're not Usually going to me and my dad every once in a while.
He'll be like oh Wow, this is new I don't remember this from when I when we moved in because like you know if it's a place We haven't gone to it a long time. It's all yeah I remember what this place looked like fucking 20 years ago when I bought the house like You know that's what will say to me. I'm like oh Well, I don't know where the fuck are we? What country are we in? That's something like he'll point out to me. I think that's so true. We don't pay attention to that. I mean, I don't think we have to. But it's still that notion of like, hey, things are happening in the real world just on the fucking internet.
Sam Lin
I think for this part... Like our lives were like we don't necessarily notice what is changing and what is not changing sure like you said it's not bad nor is it good yeah, but like a lot of things are also changing in our friends lives our family lives and Sure, sometimes it's good that we don't know because sometimes it's private and sometimes it's good that we do know right but It matters more that instead of dwelling on these changes, so like us saying, oh hey, something has changed and like this running around us. You're like saying, oh hey, you've changed or saying, oh hey, my family changed.
I don't know what's going on. It's more important to understand like why somebody has changed. Instead of saying like focusing on how they change because if you understand why they've changed, then you can more understand that how to adjust to that change, things of how to quote unquote fix that change. Because from what I've seen, like from my discord chats, is that a lot of people on there, like we always have a venting channel. And so a lot of people on those venting channels are basically talking about, oh, hey, like this person has changed, that person has changed. And I don't know what's wrong. I don't know how to make things go back to the way it was.
And like I always tell them that You don't need Something that go back to the way it used to be sure it'd be nice because we're comfortable And from the past that's where you've grown used to it So when something's changed We just need to find it in ourselves to adjust to that change instead of trying to force it to go back to the way that it used to be I was about to say the same kind of point like I think it's funny to me like sometimes people say hey Don't ever change
Eric Chow
Like for the they'll be like, hey Eric, don't ever change. Keep being you man. And. But I mean, like the sense right that too. And that's like the sense of it is like I get it. Like hey, they appreciate this thing about me, whatever it is. Or you know, obviously there's other things they don't appreciate. But like there's these things they appreciate don't change. But like we are going to change. Like you're saying like we can't like think about going back like we. can't. That's just not the way life works. All we can do is like, yeah, I'm not dwell on it and say, hey, like, it's changed.
How can I move forward as best I can? Maybe like, and yeah, like, it would be nice. Like, yeah, you can appreciate what's happened. Or appreciate what was there before. Like, I don't remember what was there before fucking in and out, or like, uh, I fly. I mean, like, oh, but whatever was there, maybe I can, if I remembered what it was, I don't know. Fuck it was. There was a buffet that used to be near Safeway. Do you remember that? Whatever. There was a buffet that used to be there. And my family used to go there. I think it was called hometown buffet. I think so.
Yeah. It was like, it wasn't like the greatest buffet ever. But I was young so I didn't really care. And it was like the only one that I knew. So like when I was younger that shit was awesome bro. Even though like I don't know if it was actually that good and I don't think it was actually that good. But like back then I thought it was great. When that shit was gone I was like damn that sucks. But hey I can still appreciate the fact that hey I had that for a while. And now it's gone but that's okay I'll move forward. I don't fucking need the buffet to be there.
Like, that's fine. I got plenty of... Exactly. It's a memory. Or I can think about like fucking, I mean, just for the listeners, we've known each other for like a good decade now. We can be like, oh yeah, I remember like when we did this and did that and fucking elementary school or middle school or whatever, we can do that. We can appreciate those times. And we're lucky enough to actually still be friends. Are we friends? I was scared.
Sam Lin
I don't know. Are we? But like, um, like, we, we appreciate that.
Eric Chow
But yeah, I mean both of us changed it. Fuck done. Since we fucking met in first grade, bro. We were fucking retarded back then.
Sam Lin
To be honest. I think everybody in first grade are retarded. That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. Could you do your, the math level you are now in first grade?
Eric Chow
Fuck no bro, I was fucking retarded back then bro. You're both still... What's 7 plus 7?
Sam Lin
I don't know. Just walk up to your old 7 and be like, what is he equal to?
Eric Chow
But yeah, I totally like agree with you. Like we're going to change. We... And yeah, people get upset about that.
Sam Lin
I mean, people get upset about the world change too sometimes. Very true. Like... I think for like most of us the biggest change is climate change and I speak about climate change. There's a big difference as to what I'm talking about when it comes to climate change. I'm talking about artificial climate change because natural climate change is a thing. There we go. Natural climate change has been happening over like thousands of years since the earth was formed through ice ages and then like the recession of ice ages and then like Yeah, it's a type of plant that I've grown. Yeah, but what most people are now focusing on is like our change of Like how we're affecting our atmosphere through the use of fossil fuels and people are happy with that and Like it's a good thing But it's more effective if you act on that mm-hmm and so the thing when it comes to Like the changes we see around us is sometimes the way we act on those changes is negative or positive. Like have you seen the movie, uh, Weathering With You?
Eric Chow
Yeah. Uh, well I'm a huge week so I've seen it already. It's an anime movie and... Awesome. I can spoil it for your listeners so you lose listeners but you know... I think it's more like if you guys go with the listeners or even if you go see it, it's a great movie. Okay. If you go see it, you'll learn like... Obviously some people go see movies for the enjoyment. Some people see it and be like, oh, okay, I could take this model for me. And so what my mom and because she wanted to come with us that one and my mom and my sister were talking about in the car after the movie was that Change will because that whole movie is about like mostly about change and change will come Like no matter like what you do you have to accept that now whether you act on that change whether you want to stop that change there will always be a price to pay whether that's a good price to pay, whether that's a bad price to pay.
Like let's go back to our friendship example. Let's say I've changed to become a horrible person. You have a choice whether you want to act on that change and like, I don't make the change stop. So you come tell me, hey, stop being that person, or you decide to just break off away from that friendship. Either way, you have decided to move and act on that change. And that's not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing. It's just accepting the fact that the way I'm not in denial of damn he should be a good guy.
Sam Lin
Yeah, you have to accept the fact that things are going to change and sometimes no matter what you do you can't stop it or like really affect it. Now climate change we can affect but as a human race we know that like you shouldn't be in denial of that and say like oh hey the human race is gonna be able to stop climate change completely because obviously Sure, we haven't gone past the point of no return, but the like the chances of us going like back to the way that it used to be is like It's not impossible, but like it's basically there. It's really it's right there.
And so We don't have to dwell on that past and say we don't have to dwell on it and be like okay We can't go back anymore. Like these people won't let us go back because you know factories We haven't found a good way to like that. That's a really kind of source of fuel But we can always decide like okay, I'm gonna do my part and decide to move forward a second word Maybe help out in a way. Yeah, like you can like besides Just taking a bus or riding a bicycle to lower the fossil fuel being pumped out into an air Right you can also look at your friendship this way somebody's changing badly you can tell them before you decide what you can I help this person?
Eric Chow
Yeah, you can decide, hey, can I give him a word of advice before I break him off or hey, can I like basically just help guide him not in a forceful way but like in a way where like I'm guiding him towards the path that I know is better for him because sometimes like when I say I like quote unquote I know right like you don't want to be here and it's not really necessarily like yeah, it's your opinion but it's also because You've obviously sometimes like some people do know what is better for other people like that's just a fact They just have the experience and some people are just stupid Some people are just fair with a fair point not I agree with you and some people and other people are just like emotionally like quote-unquote weak mm-hmm and so giving guidance to somebody Is it necessary a bad thing like I'm not saying oh this person's changed.
You should fucking erase them from me I'm not trying to say that I'm saying that they've changed and You can help them change for the better, but it's not necessarily something you have to force all these and it's not your responsibility to yeah, it's not your right I agree. I love this like you have it's it's just simply Accepting hey this person's change or this thing has changed Accepting it and then saying okay now what am I gonna do? And I like your example of climate change and when you were bringing up the factories and stuff, because I was thinking, throughout all of history, everything that's happened is something good has happened and then there's been consequences.
For example, something good happened. We got factories. Everyone moved in together. Everybody started working on stuff. We started becoming more efficient as a... human race. We started making shit, producing shit, and it was amazing, and it was awesome, and then we got cities, and everything's super cool, and everything became more efficient. But fuck, we got climate change. Or like, fuck the plan. A fuck. We got anxiety through technology. Fuck, we got all these problems now. But like, that's how, like, we progress. And then there were consequences. You think about the fucking Roman Empire. Like, fucking huge empire. You were like, oh shit, we got efficient.
Like, we got so much stuff now. Instead of like this tiny ass community, we have to figure out how to grow everything and make everything all ourselves. Oh, no, no, we have a ton of resources. We have a ton of people. We have a ton of everything. But it's really hard to control that many fucking people Especially in that time and no no fucking technology. Oh shit. I need a contact that dude send fucking horse like I don't know You know like it's hard so like every time something major and and and beneficial happens There's always some kind of consequence sometimes the consequence is fucking tiny.
It's nothing sometimes the consequence can be pretty major but Regardless like hey, it's progress Fix it, progress fix it, progress fix it. That's how history has moved, at least in terms of the major events. As for consequences, so a lot of us just going back to like humans and you know. Yeah.
Sam Lin
So like a lot of us often say to each other like, oh hey, if something bad happened, don't worry, something good will always come along. Like you know how like people are like, always look towards the future, something's gonna gonna happen. Something's good. It's always around the corner. I've said that and It's an optimistic view. I'm not saying it's a wrong view. I'm saying it's an optimistic view sure because If you think about it right if you go by that role, then something bad will always happen very true, but that's not necessarily a bad thing So saying something good is always about to happen is in my opinion kind of misleading Not in a wrong way, but in a way of saying okay, hey No matter how bad something's happening to you right now, something's good to get to happen.
But we don't know how far into the future something good is gonna happen for all we know. I really like this. We something bad can happen like three or four more times before something good happens. But like that's just part of our lives. We have ups and downs. We have changed basically. And to understand that we like our lives do change and our lives goes through these up and down. Isn't for us to say oh we should now be all depressed and shit. Something good happens and something bad happens. It's just a repetitive thing. No, it's for you to understand that, hey, these things are gonna happen and then you gotta like- What are they gonna do?
Eric Chow
Yeah, fortify your own heart and soul and your mind and face the future in a way where you won't be dragged down from your past. That's exactly right. I love this point. This is totally true. And I've said this too. I've said it a hundred thousand times. Like, oh, there's something always good coming around the corner. I believe it. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Something bad is gonna happen too. I'm in a pretty good spot in my life right now, but I know some bad shit's gonna happen sometime.
Sam Lin
The good thing that's gonna happen isn't always like something major. Right. Yeah. It could be like, oh, hey, a person wants to hang out with you. Hey, that's your good thing. Cool. And then something bad happens like... Oh no, my pen died. Like hopefully that doesn't happen, but like life happens, okay? Right. Yeah, it's gonna happen. Right. But the good thing in the bad things won't always be balanced. Yeah. You yourself have to find a balance. Not necessarily the good thing is always gonna outweigh the bad thing with bad things and outweigh the good things. But you yourself have to internalize not only what's happening right now, but also what happened in the past to find the balance of facing the future.
Eric Chow
I love this. Yeah. In fact, I The phrase that came to my mind was, take it in stride. Everything that happens, take it in stride. And then yeah, absolutely, you need to take care of like, hey, come to terms with your past. That's a good way to put anything. Come to terms with your past, take everything in stride, move forward. That's, I mean, like, there's nothing else we can really do other than accept, maybe forgive, like in the whatever word you wanna fucking use. But like, if we try to fight it, if we're like, oh, that shouldn't have happened. I shouldn't have procrastinated on my homework yesterday.
Oh, fuck. Or two days ago, I shouldn't have spent nine and a half hours on my phone, two and a half on TikTok, two and a half on YouTube, one and a half on fucking Instagram. Like shit was ridiculous bro. I shouldn't have done that, but hey, it fucking happened. I gotta deal with it. Now I gotta do my homework. You know? Like, just gonna have to figure it out. I don't have a choice. I think, yeah, I think people dwell. A lot on the past. I think I dwell a lot on the past. Like, fuck, I do it too. I'm not saying I'm good at this, but...
Sam Lin
But like, okay, dwelling isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Because the only way dwelling would be a bad thing is if you keep looking at that past and just hating yourself for it or hating another person for it or hating whatever like the event happened for it. Sure. But if you're dwelling to realize that what went wrong, what you can take away from that experience and what and like how you can learn from it, then dwelling isn't necessarily bad in that way anymore.
Eric Chow
In fact, I like using the distinction with language. I say reflection is what you just said, reflecting on this past thing to appreciate it, to learn from it, whatever. And dwelling is just... Living it over and over and over again and being mad about it yourself or upset or whatever if you're negative feeling So yeah, totally agree with you. Totally agree with you. I just use that distinction in language, but it's fucking verbatim. That's whatever. But yeah, like I agree and I think that people like learn from it is great grow from it fantastic appreciate fantastic, but also like don't forget to like you know, there's the past, the present, and the future.
Like, you don't want to live in the past. And you also, like, there's a balance to be had about figuring out how you can deal with the past, the present, and the future. Because you don't want to live in the past and dwell on it too much or reflect on it, even then, like, you don't want to spend too much time there. But also, you don't want to, like, not acknowledge it at all. Like, fuck, that would suck if I went... Who are you again? Cause like I don't, I don't acknowledge my past. Like oh shit that's gonna suck. I can't wait to just be arrogant.
Right, exactly. So like you have to find a balance in the past. And future as well. Like you don't wanna every moment be thinking about oh what's next, what's next, what's next. That's gonna be a fucking miserable life. Cause you're never doing anything. But you also don't want to not acknowledge it like if like there's that idea of Yolo right like bro fucking Yolo everything I'm gonna be broken. I'm gonna be living on the fucking streets. I'm not dead like this is gonna be a problem here So you can't just like dismiss the future either right? Maybe I died tomorrow. Maybe I don't I'll fucking know right So you can't dismiss it. You also don't want to focus too much on it same thing was like I don't care
Sam Lin
I want life. It's like now so you don't have a future.
Eric Chow
So you have to like, exactly. So you have to like find a balance between the past, the present and the future. Like you have to find a balance. You have to figure out, hey, how can I come to terms of the past, learn from the past, live in the present, enjoy the present and do whatever I want to do in the present, but also not fuck myself over in the future.
Sam Lin
And some past are always like some past for like some cute people. or is extremely painful. Right, yeah. And that comes with, like, I guess your solution, not necessarily solution, because like, time heals everything. So time is basically your old tomato, like your most, like the best solution ever. But throughout time, you have to also endure it and accept it. Yeah. And so with change comes acceptance and endurance. And so even though me and you are both eight years, we can both agree that some teachings from religions can be applied 100%. And so one of the teachings from basically Buddhism, because that's our family's tradition, is basically endurance and acceptance.
And so when it comes to the word endurance, many people think about pain. Because when we think, oh, let's endure, let's like, oh, let's... Right. Basically do our best to like keep everything in or like let's be strong and like get through these hard times. Right. Macho. Yeah. But endurance comes in like, endurance in a way is more of like a way to us up things. For you to endure something you have to understand like what it is you're enduring, why you're enduring it and what you can do about it. So what it is basically what's your problem. Why it's happening is what did you do?
What did another person do to you? And like why is it affecting you? Like how did you feel about this thing? And then what can you do about it? If you can't do anything about it, then you have to endure it and you have to accept the fact that you like this is happening to you. But if you can do something about it, then you can move on and say, hey, how can I change myself? How can I go out and change? Like what event is making me go through this and like what I can do to like basically better myself. And through those like basic thought processes, your endurance isn't like this, the thing that you're enduring won't necessarily be that much painful anymore because you've come to the fact that like you know now why this is happening to you, what is happening to you and like what can you do about it. And so you can then move on to either accepting it or changing it.
Eric Chow
I'll make a careful note here. Everything you're saying is absolutely true, but just a careful note. I think some people, especially when they're in a hard situation, they're like...
Sam Lin
Yeah, we tend to like look towards a solution, but we tend to focus on why is happening maybe and then you start blaming yourself Yes, this happens to me a lot like sometimes when I fuck up like especially because I look because of anxiety and stuff I start blaming myself a lot like sometimes I just be sitting there some people look at me and be like oh fuck I fucked up What did I do and it's not like obviously I'm not saying like oh these three steps are easy to think about in the body. Like when you've lost someone or like you lost a pet, that pain is going to be devastating.
Your heart needs time to adjust. So endurance isn't only about like figuring out, oh, what the fuck is happening or what's wrong, like right then and there it takes time. A sentence takes time and change takes time. So it's all it's not necessarily all internal, but it's also external in a way as well, because you have to find. a way to deal with that pain for the short amount of time before you decide or you look towards the future to move on.
Eric Chow
I think it's a careful thing to, especially since you mentioned emotion. I think instead of like you said, you don't have to figure it out immediately. Just why don't you just, instead of accepting, forget the situation, accept your emotion. Like hey, I'm fucking hurt right now because this person passed away. Damn. Cry, cry exactly fucking simple and I think people might put themselves down for it people might Feel bad that they're feeling a certain way they dismiss their emotion even if it's not a negative one Like it might be a positive one, but it like because of situation they maybe feel like they don't they shouldn't feel a certain way Emotions I think are always valid. It's what you do that matters
Sam Lin
And then we feel that certain way is because of social pressure. A lot of us are always focusing on ourselves. It's not necessarily a selfish thing, but many of us are focusing on our own life because we rush through school. We always want to get good grades, we always want to be the best, some of us even want to like, oh, I want to make my parents proud. When we face these things and we realize that, oh hey, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling hurt, sometimes we don't want to show this to other people because it's a sign of weakness, it's a sign of failure, and it's a sign of basically like you've given up, but that's not true.
What's happening is you're basically now letting out these emotions so that later on you can come back to these emotions and realize, hey, what's wrong and like basically deal with it then. Crying is not weak, showing emotions isn't weak and like society has driven this not into like humans in general but mostly into boys. I'm not saying girls don't have pressure.
Eric Chow
But I'm saying like it's so strong a lot of it is.
Sam Lin
Social stereotype is mostly like Boys are more of the like masculine macho. Yeah, manly. Yeah, you all cry. You're crying. You're so strange. In my point of view, like for me, if you were to tell me all that, I would say, hey, that's a lie because I know for a fact that many girls out there are extremely more like stronger than me. Like I'm pretty weak myself. Well, basically, any emotion only. And so like I know for a fact that I myself cannot say like a sub the fact that hey I shouldn't cry because if you told me that basically depression would kick in anxiety would kick in suicidal thoughts would kick in and that's what's happening for most of us today yeah we've gone through this like thought process of I cannot show these emotions or else something bad will happen somebody will think about me this a certain way or like oh I can't like My parents won't be proud of me this certain way because I'm crying and I'm not being like who they want me to be.
Eric Chow
That's exactly right. That's why I think like I really appreciate when people are able to say fuck you to that idea. Like when we on the podcast episode that we recorded before episode 15 and then me and episode 16 like we shared some vulnerable shit. And I think that that was a powerful thing to do. Even like, I don't know how many people listen to it. I don't know if you got any messages or if I don't even remember if I got any messages about it. I don't fucking remember. But like, you know, it doesn't even matter if anyone like, if that really impacted someone and maybe it did, maybe it didn't.
I don't fucking know. But like, it's still a powerful thing to recognize. I'm going to put this out because the fact that Me hiding like and you told you said this about me like I did a pretty good job of hiding all my like hardship in my struggles You said this about me. That's very true. I did that very well, but like it's not facts It's not that I have a perfect no one does yeah, no one does Everyone struggles and like people people put people down for that. That's going to happen like you said like good and bad is always going to exist in life so you can't just Because someone's in a bad place. Why are you gonna put them down? It's a fact of life. Like it's just how it is.
Sam Lin
Like our generation has become more accepting of this fact. I agree. Yeah. We've come more and more accepting but like we cannot ask like we've changed. Like throughout humanity like human generations we've changed. And so well like just because we've changed doesn't mean that like the past has just been erased. Right. It's like going back to the thought process of you have to accept the past. But in this case, it's more of like, we have to understand that this stereotype about boys or like about like your kids or like your friends is that they don't have any problems that have problems, then it's a bad thing and you don't want to get it.
Like you don't want to deal with it. That's something from the past and we should have to learn and move on from it and understand that that's not true. We as humans are vulnerable. We're social creatures and so we need people to support us now You should also understand that just because you're going through a bad time and Somebody else is going through a bad time that doesn't necessarily Mean that you shouldn't still talk about like what you're feeling because I understand that sometimes when we realize that we're having a bad time and like this other person's going through some stuff We don't want to put pressure on them, but for the people who are like who don't want that pressure, you should also understand that maybe validating each other's problems can help or basically saying, hey, I have a bad time and I can maybe talk to you about yours for a bit.
You don't even have to accept the whole thing. And another viewpoint of this, like accepting each other's emotions is just because somebody's having a bad time. Like just say I'm having a bad time and you're having a good time and you don't want to tell me about it because hey, if I get bad time I don't want to be bright, cold, bright, good at the time. I don't want to say like that's, it's not a good viewpoint because as friends you should always accept like each other's emotions when you can. Obviously sometimes it's just too hard. But just because somebody's having a good time doesn't mean that they shouldn't share it with you just because you're having a bad time.
Eric Chow
Just because I'm having a great time doesn't mean I shouldn't be having a great time.
Sam Lin
Yeah, and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be talking to me about this. Right, yeah. Because obviously you want to share it. Yeah, you want to share it to somebody. You want to like, I think it comes down to intent.
Eric Chow
I love what you're saying. I think it comes down to intent because like, you know, if we're both having a bad time and we're talking to each other. If we're doing it in the context of hey, please help me please fix my problems Now you're worried about me and you're worried about everything going on in your life So now you feel that added pressure, but if I'm coming to you just as a like if we're chatting to each other as a in the with the intent of simply like Bro, we're both struggling right now and let's just deal with it together share our experiences now.
There's no pressure at all. We're just like we under now we're just Appreciating the fact that hey, I'm not the only one going through this. That's all we're doing now. Okay, now we can move forward with it's an intent or if I if you're having a great time I might bring a bad time and I come to you and You share your good time. There can be the intent of yeah, I want to fucking like bro life is great man and Now I feel bad because I'm like I'm broke my fuck life sucks dude Like then then it's like it's a problem But if you come to me with the intent of like hey like look My life right now is incredible because of X, Y, and Z.
It'll get better and blah, blah, blah. If you're just trying to show me, hey, there is a bright side, then now I feel a little uplifted. I feel a little hopeful. So it's like, how are you approaching the situation, I think?
Sam Lin
Like a post that I have saved on my phone that I sometimes send to my online friends is basically just says that... Just because you're having a good time and you see me struggling doesn't mean I don't want to know about your good time Love it. Yeah, because we always like we want to be there for our friends Yeah, whether they're celebrating something or going through something we want to be there and like maybe we're going through shit ourselves But we still want to be there we still want to be friends We still want to experience the same thing our friends are experiencing we still want to congratulate them We still want to be right before that's absolutely right people are
Eric Chow
Yeah, I don't know That's absolutely absolutely true like people feel like They might be judged as well. I think as long as your intent is good Maybe it'll be obviously even if your intent is great. It could still go wrong but I think that's a good start like to make sure your intent is good That's a good good good place to start like hey like I mean even if someone is having a bad time like If you cannot blift them and help them and like encourage them like maybe you're not even helping them with their fucking problems but like Hey, I know you're going through this but like dude I'm celebrating because this happened to me You want to come hang out?
And you can say no you can say yes. It doesn't really matter Just the fact that I reach out and go hey like I want you to be here Hey, that's cool. That's even if what it whether they want it or not. It's cool The intent is there.
Sam Lin
And I think for like reaching out to people. Yeah. Sometimes you have to accept the fact that they don't want to be reached out to. So I've seen like a lot of people. So there's this like discord community of just people helping each other out. Like, oh, you could like ask someone to rans it or I just post your problems on there. Somebody will try to like talk you or like help you out. Sure. And so what I've seen is basically A lot of people who have these problems and the people who want to fix like basically who they go talk to, always two separate people.
So like what I'm trying to say is that this person wants one thing and this person who's trying to like listen to them wants another thing. So I'm saying like this person just wants to talk about the problems. And the other person wants to solve. Soft, it fix it. But you have to accept the fact that not everybody wants you to solve them. Some people just want you to Talk to them and for you to get offended about that fact is completely wrong on your part because They're they're not obligated to tell you all their phone phones. It's their needs. Yeah, and you're you saying that oh hey you're talking to me about all this and I can't even help you that's like That's like you being selfish like well no shit dude They need it because they need an outlet and it's like and you offer to listen It's not you offering to fucking fix my life problems and it's like you're trying to solve their problem Yeah, but by not providing them what that they need you are inherently not solving their problem You're solving their problem.
You're also pushing too far and you just have to accept the fact that some people in your life or like some people out there just need a shoulder to lean on. Yeah. Somebody to talk to and you can't always help them or fix them. It comes back to the hour like thing of change and a substance. Yeah. They're going to change over time. Whether how long that takes is not up for you to decide. Right. Whether like how they change or like how they go through this or like How they deal with these problems isn't for you to like decide isn't for YouTube like you can influence but you You definitely you have to accept that fact that like some people Will not change as fast as you want them to and will not listen to you as much as you want them to you can also solve every problem out there And that's okay.
Eric Chow
That's completely okay. I think dudes especially we are better at like we want to solve people's problems. Like this is a common like thing exactly dudes are problem solvers. Then like obviously stereotypes. So it's not always true and everything generalization. I don't like it. Yeah, you know, we're fucking the recharge. Yeah, exactly. Like, like I think I think that yeah, so totally right. I think a lot of people try to do that. I've tried to do that for other people and then I've realized like it's not the move or other people have tried to do that for me and I've realized Hey, I don't need this shit.
This is fucking making it worse. Like, I think a good, good, I think a good rule of thumb is like, hey, I'ma just listen to you, I'm like, Sam, I'm a validate. I think that's a good one. We were talking about this in the episode 15 or whatever fucking episode was. Like, hey, listen, ask questions, care, validate if you can. And if they want advice, either they will tell you or you will ask. Like hey Do you want advice or no and then it'll be like yes or no and then there you go Why am I doing an accent I don't know I think so I came to realize like that problem.
Sam Lin
Yeah Was also applying to me because I realized that I wanted like help it because I'm like it's good attention It's a good exactly, but it doesn't mean it's always good right I was standing outside of Miss Diaz's class. Okay. And you know how she has posters outside of her? And so one of them was, I don't remember the exact words, but one of them was basically saying, there's a fine line between comforting and controlling. Oh. So there's a point to where you're comforting them, telling them like, hey, maybe if you can do this, something can change. And that's good. That's comforting them. That's telling them.
that's advising them what they can do but that comes very close to telling them hey you should do this because I think that hey this is the right thing to do. Or even you have to do this. That becomes controlling. That's no longer comforting. That's no longer listening to their problems or like giving them advice. That's more of you should do this or else your life's gonna fuck up and that's a really bad mentality towards your friends because your friends are there to ask for advice, to ask for your comfort, not for you, not for you to be a...
Eric Chow
Not to put them in the driver's seat of your life.
Sam Lin
Not for them to basically be the game master and control you as a character.
Eric Chow
Exactly. In fact, I want to approach this from two different perspectives. If a listener is in the position of trying to comfort someone, whether now or in the future, I think your advice is perfect. Like, hey, comfort, do that. but don't try to control them. Just do what you can and then let them go forward from there. Like you have to surrender a little bit. And then the other perspective is if you're the one getting comforted by someone else and they start to shift into the controlling aspect because that's going to happen. That's going to happen. People are still, this is what we're talking about is a common thing that happens.
So like people might Put me down or you down or try to control us and try to tell us hey, this is what you have to do I think for the people who are in that position recognize like it is your life Take their advice. They have good intentions probably most of the time They'll probably have good intentions when they're doing this sort of thing but maybe they don't who knows but It's you like hey, you're the one in the driver's seat of the car. You're the game master here How do you want to take it? I love a Bruce Lee quote that says, adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically or uniquely you're on.
So like, if someone gives me advice, if I give someone advice, hey, what's good for this? What's useful? What do I like? What do I think is useful for my life? Okay, great. I'll take that. This stuff fucking useless. I'm gonna throw it away. Thanks for giving it to me, but I don't need it. I don't like it. It's not true for me. Bluck maybe like the different experiences, so therefore it's not true for me or whatever the reason maybe I don't think it's useful. I'm gonna throw it away. Okay, cool. And then hey, I got some stuff that this helped me realize. This helped me realize, hey, I connected with this shit back in my past or whatever.
Hey, I can add that. So now I have, so it's like add, reject, wait, no. Adapt, reject, add. That's what it is. And so, don't. I mean, people are going to make that mistake and I think from what we're saying, I think it almost could someone could almost go like, they shouldn't be acting like that. But they are. Acceptance, acceptance that they are acting that way and now you have to move forward.
Sam Lin
That's what this all is. It's also situational because some people like, what are my best friends online? She basically just comes to me like she rarely talks about her emotions, but when she does she's always looking for Advice or like she wants me to talk to her about it and validate it and some people are just like that Some people always come for advice. So like when you've come to know that person and realize that you no longer need to ask and another thing is sometimes Controlling is a good thing if you know that thing that's happening to them is toxic. So like, let's say I'm gonna take relationship into your thing.
If you know that person is abusing them or like basically wearing them down emotionally, mentally and everything, then you know that that person's not good for them. That's when you can control and don't, like when I say control, I don't mean like push them. Cause if you push too hard then obviously you're not only fucking up that friendship but you're also ruining her life even more. But control in a way of tell her like what she should do to like deal with this situation in more of a like a Thordive tone than advice That's what you can control because that's what you know What is good for them and you want to like actually save them from the situation there it's like if I'm in a car with you
Eric Chow
And we gon die. I'm taking the wheel. I'm not going to die with you. I'm taking the wheel. So yeah, I mean, and it's figuring out how can I figure out like, hey, what it looks like we're gonna be in a dangerous situation right now in this car? Do I trust you to save us? Or do I feel like I need to, cause like if I grab on the wheel and turn it. but you were about to do something else. We're gonna die because I fucked your plan up.
Sam Lin
So, you know, it's gonna be... It's gonna be... I can't win this game. You're definitely taking me.
Eric Chow
Because I can't drive you. Exactly. Exactly. So like, I would be like, oh, and then it has no fucking experience here.
Sam Lin
I have a little bit more. So I'm taking a little bit.
Eric Chow
Why is he driving? Park the car, I'm driving.
Sam Lin
How did we get in this position first place?
Eric Chow
Exactly. So, you know, it's an understanding like your relationship with this person, your situation. Do you want to take the wheel or not? Because it's a risky thing. I remember a quote, and to be honest with you, I'm not sure if this is going to work for this conversation or not, but it comes to mind and I think I can make it work. So we'll find out. I have no idea. The quote was... And it's paraphrasing because I don't fucking actually know the actual quote, but it was like, what's the difference between manipulating someone and leadership? Both of them are trying to get someone to do something.
If I'm manipulating you, I'm trying to get you to do something. If I'm leading you, I'm trying to get you to do something. So what's the difference? Manipulating is trying to get you to do something that benefits me. Leadership is trying to get you to do something that benefits the team, the mission, the group. the benefits you add mean something like that that was that was the line that this guy Jocko Willink he's a Navy SEAL so you know pretty high up there a video by Prince yeah yeah that also goes with basically what you're talking about yeah in his video it was like what is the difference between a boss and a leader yes because in his like you know he does skippy yes yes and so in that skid video was basically
Sam Lin
This boss was telling you, was asking all his employees, why don't you do this on the boss you should listen to me. And so he stood up and was like, why do you know what the difference is between leading and being a leader and being a boss? And he basically goes to what you're saying.
Eric Chow
Exactly, that's exactly what it is. And so, in our situations, if someone's going through something or if you're going through something, someone else is trying to do something, Manipulation or leadership find that difference. How can I like if I feel like I want to control and I want to take control Am I doing this because I feel like I know what's right for you and because I feel like I need you to Follow some my vision of how your life is supposed to be my vision of how your life is supposed to be That's manipulating, but if I'm going hey your life right now needs help and All I want is the best for you and it's not about whether it matches my vision or not I might have a vision in my head of what's best for you, but it might not be the right What's best for you?
What's actually best for you? How can I get you there? How can I get you to where you want to be? That's leadership any any final thoughts in the last two minutes or so? Perfect.
Sam Lin
I guess the best thing like as we go wrap up in a way of saying what you can take away from all this Yeah, and so what you can take away from basically what you've just heard is what do we talk about acceptance endurance change and basically comfort and like how to do it and throughout all this you can basically Take all these lessons or like what we've talked about too hard or you don't have to, it's up to you. But it's mainly for you to basically internalize all this. It's not necessarily for you to have a more optimistic outlook on life. It's not necessarily for you to like, like always apply to every single thing that you do in life.
It's more of a way for you to strengthen yourself, strengthen your mind and accept what is going to happen and accept that you can either help this change, help this pain, help this, whatever is happening to you or you can move away from it and find and basically continue on.
Eric Chow
Right. Yeah. I agree. I think the big theme, because like we mentioned a lot of different situations and whether someone's in that situation or not, we have no idea. But I think, yeah, accepting change is happening and will happen. with people, with life, with situations, with things, whatever it is, things are temporary, accepting it and saying, hey, this is happening, what can I do? Or hey, except I'm feeling this way, what can I do? Because denying something that is happening is only going to lead to more pain. So you might as well accept it and move forward, whatever the situation is. I think it's just a good attitude to bring to life in general.
You don't have to do with everything and hell if like Lynn said you can fucking completely disagree and think we're retarded. I don't really care to be honest whether you do or not because in my opinion I think this is useful but hey all power to you adapt what is useful reject what is not add what is your own. Yeah thanks for coming on the show again. Hey everybody, thank you so much for listening to this episode this conversation I had with my friends Sam I mean Honestly, it's kind of funny because he came to me with like like when he's when I asked him Hey, what do you want to talk about?
Why are you? Why do you want to come on again? He was he said one short phrase and I quote Talking about how things are always changing basically impermanence. And that's all you said. And that's what turned into this nearly one hour long conversation that covered a crap ton of topics from the impact of technology on human psychology, like how we get so enamored in our screens and that we miss the things going on around us and the people around us. When we were talking about how people are changing, you know, I'm changing Sam's changing Just it's just something that happens in life life doesn't stand still, you know times always going and I think that it is our responsibility the best thing that we can do is own it own that change own that growth and and move forward as best we can instead of denying it or or trying to say, no, this shouldn't be happening or holding onto the past, you know, coming to a point where you were at peace with your past, as well as the present, and able to move forward in the future, and as productive of a manner as possible.
You know, even in a very simple case, like, if you... I've been doing this one sometimes. If I find myself getting distracted, say on my phone for too long, and I end up procrastinating and not getting a lot of things done because I just ended up getting glued to my screen or whatever it is. Or into a particular app, which tends to either be TikTok or YouTube. I don't use TikTok as much, but if I do. I've talked about this before. If I do open TikTok, it's usually kind of over. Well, no, not always. Sometimes I want TikTok for like 15 minutes or 20 minutes.
And it's not that bad, but like other times it's like two hours are gone and it's like that's really bad. But yeah, you know, and same thing with YouTube. YouTube I'll be on for like 20 minutes and it'll be great and it'll be actually very interesting and productive and useful. Other times I'll be on for like hours. So yeah. But you know, when that happens, like, I don't have to hold on to them being so disappointed in myself. And damn, like, why did I do that? Now I'm so screwed. What's the alternative? I can't go back and change it, you know? How can I move forward in as productive manner as possible?
Well, the answer is I don't get worried about the past. Hey, can I? Maybe can I figure out how I can prevent this from happening again or decrease the likelihood of it happening again? Okay, maybe I can. Maybe I can't. And then just move forward. Like don't don't dwell on it. That's just going to waste more time and you're just not going to be able to get more things done. That's something I've been doing in my own life. Quite quite a lot the past two months, I would say. And I think it was very interesting to apply this idea of change and impermanence to so many different situations.
So I hope you guys got something out of it. I hope you guys enjoyed and are able to bring something to your life that'll be useful. I think that if there is something that you found interesting or found useful or... Or that you particularly like maybe you found yourself agreeing with it us I would love to hear about it. So please message me on Instagram and Twitter at underscore chow eric and of course you can find Sam on Instagram in the episode description my friends. Thank you so much for listening. I will see you in the next episode. Wow, this is actually pretty incredible episode 27 next week. That's awesome Yeah, anyways, I will see you in the next episode. Have a fantastic rest of the day.