The Arts, Quarantine, and Self-Esteem
Host: Eric Chow · Guest: Johan Casal · April 14, 2020 · Episode 30 · 55 minutes
Transcribed from the episode audio and edited for names and terms. Speaker labels are assigned automatically and can occasionally place a line with the wrong speaker; the episode itself is the record.
Eric Chow
Hi everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the Eric Chow Empowers Podcast super excited to have you listen to this amazing episode and It's amazing guest I'm also excited because this is my first episode back from a bit of a hiatus the avid listeners right now know that I haven't released an episode in a little while, so this is sort of that first episode back and I'm really quite happy with it. It was a lot of fun and my guest was awesome. So... Just gonna tell you a little bit about what we're talking about in this episode We're gonna talk about the arts because my guest has a bit of a background and has had some experience in the arts and especially dancing, singing, choreographing, writing, directing a whole lot of things really so we're gonna talk about that We're under quarantine of course so we're gonna talk about that and how it's impacted us some of our strategies for staying sane and Also, how we're using this time to explore and be curious about a lot of things.
We're also going to talk about communication and having difficult conversations. We're talking about, you know, in the context of love and relationships, we're talking about self-esteem. And another big theme of the podcast is also just striving to be better. always being a work in progress as my guest says in this episode and yeah, it's just a lot of fun and lots of very pretty pretty broad range of topics here, but it was a great episode and I'm really excited for you guys to listen to it. So without further ado my friends here we go.
Johan Casal
Cool. We're in business. Okay. So that left me about last 10 minutes was goal to be honest.
Eric Chow
You're kind of right. Maybe we should have led with that.
Johan Casal
We should have. We should have. Oh well, it's fine. It's fine.
Eric Chow
Yeah. Well, so anyone to hear now, you missed it. Yeah, you missed quite a quite a good conversation. Whatever. Ready? Yeah. All right. Here we go. What is up everybody welcome to the Eric Shao Empowers podcast. This is episode 30 been a while since I recorded an episode, but We have an awesome guest today We met junior year Fencel. Yes, we did meet you Yeah, definitely did probably like I think I probably knew of you in sophomore.
Johan Casal
Yeah, exactly but then pencil was Was the time when we started talking.
Eric Chow
Yeah, we got to know each other a lot more in tripping. Yeah, and now we're now we're here. We are. So my guest today is former senior class president. Yeah, which is how I knew you at first. I remember I always called you Mr.
Johan Casal
President. I know. Actually, he met me as a junior class president.
Eric Chow
I did meet you as a class president. That is very true. Yeah. And let's see, dancer, choreographer, singer. You went and you were in the play? We got a multi-talented King out here. Oh man. Johan Kusal, did I get right? Yes, he did. Johan Kusal. Welcome to the show. You want to do an introduction to? Tell people a little bit about you. Yes. What you're up to now?
Johan Casal
What am I up to? So yeah, my name is Joanna Saw. I'm currently a fashion student at San Francisco State University. I'm studying film right now, I've been working around, I'm also studying dance over there, which was something pretty surprising. I've had the opportunity to choreograph at local color guard school, a local high school for the color guard team. Just been performing a lot too. I performed at San Francisco State for their all show new moves. I had the opportunity to perform at Oracle Park, whether Bay Area Science Festival. I performed at Stanford recently too, for their Bay Area Dance Exchange. And before this whole coronavirus, I had two other shows lined up.
Yeah, the other... The Spring Show for San Francisco State University called University Dance Theater and also Filipino Cultural Night PCN. It's this annual show that our Filipino club puts on run by students entirely and it's a really cool way to display the Filipino culture through dance, through singing, through acting, kind of like what skill it was. So that's something that really drew me to that. I was an actor in that. I was also a singer in the answer too. in that. So yeah, just like a perfect.
Eric Chow
Seriously. Multi, multi talented. Let's start with, let's start with film. You're studying film. Yes. What, what in fact, we can kind of combine all of them because they're all kind of the arts, right? What we got too interested in all that.
Johan Casal
Honestly, it's one of my two and everything. Just in general, my whole life has been my always going to the movie theaters and I feel like that's where it really started. I know like for the people that know me Marvel has been such a really big jumping jumping off point in my life in terms of film. I've got so invested in that. I'm like, well how it's so cool how they were able to turn this into movies and how we could see these people go together and just like that's the power of storytelling too. How it gets too excited. So it's like through that. Movies has been a concert in like okay.
Let's go this week. What's happened? What's coming up this week? If it wasn't for Marvel, I would have never gotten into this series called AMC movie talk and that they would talk about movies in general so it spread from just Marvel movies to movies and the industry and the industry as a whole So I got so invested in that that's like the film side with music. It's also been a constant my family like from cousins all around, like all the way in the Philippines too. We're just like the same. We liked our instruments. I was in band middle school. I played the trombone. I also played in Bali.
My dad got me out of a piano singing. It's just something, I feel like in the Filipino wide prison region, dancing is something pretty new and acting. So I still get kind of... Weird when people call me a dancer because it's like well You guys have been dancing for like ever since five and I started dancing My junior year and that wasn't even training and like I'm actually training right now in San Francisco State, so I'm so pretty new to being a dancer and also adapting to being in the two musicals Little Mermaid and if anything happened on a way their forum was a really cool experience for me to be an actor and like seeing a director work and seeing how other actors work.
I think that's all been pretty crucial in the ways I've planned our skits too. Because you know, output requires input so I'd always love to be a part of different forums and seeing how other people teach, how other people work so I could translate that into my own styles. And that's the real reason why I feel like Skit has been really different for our class. Because I've been able to bring so much outside experience, not just in one section, but in all the sections that, you know, Skit requires from the script. Cool. I've heard so many people talk about movie reviews, from dance. I've seen so many people talk about very dance experience and stuff.
music from my background to how I like to see music. Just like all that type of stuff. Everything has just been a nice melting pot. And the way I direct my actors comes from inspiration of how my director has taught me, seeing how other actors work with each other, how he blocks the stage. So everything has just been additive, you know, like my art experience. Yeah.
Eric Chow
I think a lot of people, you know, on the topic of like creativity, I think a lot of people feel like they have to come up with a brand new idea. Like they have to be so innovative. Oh, yeah. They have to be like, yeah. Oh, you know, no one can have thought of this thing before. That's so much pressure. If you're if you're if you're under that, but I totally agree with like when what you're saying, like, no, you just take everything that somebody else knows that you and then you. that shit all together and you add a little bit of glue into it and that's what it is.
Exactly. It's really what it is. People are just so, yeah, I think a lot of people are confused about that and I love the way you're looking at it. That's the way I try to look at it too. And I think it makes it fun because it's like when people are like, oh man, you're so, you came up with all this is crazy and you're just like...
Johan Casal
Well, I kind of drew a fanfare, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, a there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there there, there, There's always like a prelude where boom stadium lights turn off.
There's a video projected on there and as a crowd you feel okay, you know what's happening. It's leading up into it and then bam you see them in person. So that's the same concept I wanted to emulate within this skip or junior skip where it's like okay, well we see what's happening up on the screen. What's going on? Now we see the brick wall there we see is it leading boom. it's that crescendo into the big bang and that's the attention grabber that propels people into whoa so this is how the skits going to be from here on out you know yeah it's brilliant I love it yeah so that's really taken from concerts that I imagine the feel 100% and then we you know talking a little bit about
Eric Chow
choreographing and storytelling. Yes. I think it's interesting because, you know, when you think about it, like on a very surface level, it'll be like storytelling. It's like, oh, you know, that's a good story. That's pretty cool. But then you can also just go so much deeper and you can just think about like the underlying things going on. It's like, oh, there's an underlying message or like there's like when you're talking about like, oh, there's a crescendo and things like that. I'm over here like, man. fuck. That's going. But I get it once we start talking about it. And it's like, it's a beautiful thing to sort of think about how there's so much happening that people don't usually realize unless you really think about it. But it's always trying to pursue some sort of effect that is just that's just beautiful. Yeah.
Johan Casal
Something that I've learned a lot at being a dancer at Temple Tisco State is the art of storytelling through choreography. The show that I'm in, that I was in, completely different from any dancer I've ever done. What you're probably used to is seeing people dance. Music on the charts, you know, like Beyonce, Lady Gaga, that type of music. My dance experience here has been so different. because they really focus on the intention of the movement in order to find, to make sure you're telling the story. From my experience, my choreographer, she told the story of her drug abuse and how she kind of got over that and that feeling of surrender to it.
But, you know, we saw the introduction of these drugs. There was five of us in total. It was also inspired by Alison Wonderland. So the idea of taking the job, going into a new place, the Wonderland, how that the job's controlled you. I was essentially the main character in that piece. So it was just so cool of having sections be like, so like seeing her create a process go, she was like, okay, well, I felt influenced by drugs. So this whole section is going to be the four of the drugs really manipulating your body movement. One drug represented lust. How can we represent that feeling of lust into body movement?
Another drug represented showed her anxiety. What type of movement is that anxiety? How can we elevate that new body movement? Same with anger, same with depression. Each of that had that own characterized personality and how that affected me too. All that type of things really helped tell that story. without any worries and when she watch it, you'll be able to understand it. And that's really our choreography now. And storytelling. It was really beautiful seeing that her whole creative process just spell out and for them to tell her story to just move this and not any ways at all. It was really beautiful.
Eric Chow
Yeah, I mean, I think some people when they, you know, when it's choreographing, it's like part of it's like You just feel like they're just trying to dance and like yes look cool and it's like And then and then there's like level two where it's like you're just trying to have fun and I'm like, all right, that's awesome. You know, that's great. Yeah, and then there's the story and I don't know that's pretty pretty cool. I was listening to a podcast probably like last week with It's Jay Shaddy. It's Jay Shaddy's podcast, but Julie and Huff was on it and She was sharing how she was sharing how she felt like she wasn't like being able to like communicate with her language.
Whenever she was being interviewed, but every time she had to dance, she was like, that was my communication. That was how I talked to people. That was how I really expressed myself authentically. And she was like, she was telling Jay, like every time I wanted interview, especially in the past, I was always like nervous and I didn't really know what to say. And like, I was just not, it was just not it. And then she would dance and it would be beautiful and it would be awesome because that was how she knew how to, that's how she grew up, you know, dance. And that was, that was a really just a random story that came up in my mind.
Johan Casal
Yeah. I'm so glad you brought up that story because last semester for my English class about finding your voice, finding your language. I wrote an essay about how I use dance as another language to communicate what I'm really feeling. For, you know, how I was in dance in a high school at dance dance, the piece that I call that for my solo audition was a way for me to express feelings in a way where I couldn't express it. verbal in language so I took that translated that into body movement how would that be like how I feel like and that felt that was in a way like a meditative healing experience, you know It's like completely understanding really I'm going from and I really think that's a hidden gem with dancing 100% a hot over that it's a brilliant sort of expression Let's let's connect it to
Eric Chow
because I know you really like our really respective of your Filipino culture. So, and I know that's been sort of the something that has influenced your dance, your singing, your everything you do basically. And I know on Twitter, you like to mention culture when you're talking about film and stuff like that. I know this. So what, how do you feel about? Filipino culture, Asian culture, and the arts right now.
Johan Casal
It's, you know, as always, it would always, it would ask anyone, it's really under-represented. You don't see a lot of it, it's not really there. And I feel like for me being so passionate about it is because I want to see people like me up on there. For me, like something that keeps driving me is just a quote, where it's like Be the person that she needed when you were younger. I didn't have any Asian American people up on the screen like that. So for me to aspire to be the person that I needed when I was younger only helps the younger generation of Asian American artists that do want to make it up there. You know?
Eric Chow
So I feel like this generation Has just been so cool and it's like we've been aware that there's not a lot of us up there But we're really working hard. It's a whole collective of us. I see all over social media That's why I feel like it's so important to support your artists because you want to see everybody thrive Like not just like in the industry like in just a You know like the film stuff but people who do like artwork music that type, you know a hundred percent agree I think that Especially with people our age, it's like hesitant to support other people who are doing these things.
I don't know why. Maybe it's like, oh man, they're doing such cool things. But you're like, oh, you know, I'm not, or people are trying to get free stuff. Especially for actual physical art. They're like, oh, can I get free piece or something? Or it's like, hey, why are you selling? Attendants to this film or this thing or whatever. It's like, okay, it'd be free. Yeah. Like you're like, uh, because this shit took a lot of time. It's hard to spend money on this. Like we had to make it back. Exactly.
Johan Casal
That's like when we're like, you know, going into the entertainment industry, you know, the whole thing with parents or it's like, well, how are you going to make money on that? It really does come up with like, okay, well, who's there to actually? Support your work support if by you know paying for it. Yeah, I could be a barrier for some of us, but you know it's well important to kind of Like as an artist to kind of get the money to produce more things to a hundred percent Let's you mentioned Oh quarantine thing.
Eric Chow
How is that affected? So you said you had performance is canceled was that right?
Johan Casal
Well, technically three, because my color guard team was supposed to perform. Yeah. The color guard showed that I was choreographing for it. So that would have been for a streak of April. And yeah, so I wasn't performing in that. I was just, it was like my kid's show. But, you know, we still had the performance. I was involved in that Got Canceled. Crazy because we got canceled from one show. the week of opening night. Yeah. So we just finished a run through and then they're like, all right, we're all getting the emails and updates as like we're going for the show. And then when the last dance happens and they're like, okay, let's come together.
So it's not happening. And then, and then, okay, they're like looking at it. Oh, dude. Oh, but it was kind of like a one, two punch because They said that, but then they also said, we could probably do it this week. And then the second push happened where it's like, well, we're going to be quarantined for this law, which went over the time where a second date would have been. So then yeah, then, you know, a couple of days later, okay, we're just not going to come back with a semester.
Eric Chow
So yeah. Yeah. Down. I know. How else has quarantine been for you?
Johan Casal
What's been really crazy given that I'm in three dance classes? The whole dance department have to just take a step back. How are we gonna teach these kids? Because the dance is best taught in a community, physically, you know? So how can we kind of grade these kids on technique if we can't really physically be there? to manipulate, oh this is how you're really supposed to do it. Or you know maybe I noticed that you're doing this, you can't have that same feedback. Exactly through Zoom. I know for my ballet class, she's always up on us like okay, technique is 100% because she could physically look at us, manipulate our bodies correctly.
You can't really have that same feeling during Zoom. She could only do so much and stuff. So, um... It's been interesting. We've been doing Zoom though. They were nice enough to kind of like, okay, we're just going to grade you up until we got canceled. But so everything from here on out is really optional for you because I understand not everybody has access to computers, not everybody has a time to anymore because they need to work and support their family. So like everything is just like, if you want to do it. So what they've been offering has been pretty nice because, you know, I've been really active in a while, so having done like, okay, here's some fun improv prompts for you to kind of move around and stuff.
And also the dance community community in general outside of school has been so supportive too because they're offering free classes. That is awesome. Like top-notch choreographers in the industry. So it's been like really nice having these options to live here and here and here. And yeah. But you know, I also see this quarantine as a good A blessing disguise like my choreographer said this like really nice reset for us to kind of stop what we're doing physically and kind of look inward on our soul to help us like heal on the inside too So that's been something I've been trying to kind of work on too and yet and also just like using this opportunity to kind of Look into stuff I've been wanting to do but have it really had the time to go Because when we were still in school, every single day I had a rehearsal.
Whether it was for this show, or I was working, or if it was for the other show. And now I'm at like a complete stop at the moment. So I'm going into studying more about story structures, filming, going, learning more about different dance histories, learning more about music theory, stuff like that. That I didn't really have the time to when we weren't in quarantine.
Eric Chow
100% yeah I think yeah spending time like exploring something new in a time like this is just perfect yeah exactly you're stuck at home what else are you gonna do watch Netflix like that's sure great which isn't bad you know I don't want to put down people who are like right I don't want to write exactly I don't want to put down people who are like relaxing but at the same time it's like you know I really don't want to put anybody down for that put You could be trying something that potentially could be interesting to you. Yeah, you could be maybe it's just me because I'm a really I don't know about you, but I'm a really naturally curious person Yeah, so I'm just like let's go let's learn everything.
Yeah, I'm just a naturally curious person. That's just how I Function I think I've been a naturally kid. I took a hold on. Let me see if I can find this I took like a quiz or something yesterday, you know how there's like the the MBTI personality tests kind of yes I had a I had something and it's called it's like my signature strengths and Literally number one is curiosity.
Johan Casal
Mm-hmm. I need a look for my email and say what personality it was But I also am a pretty serious person too. No, I totally feel you. Like I'm a serious person because personally, for me, there's always room to improve. You know, there's always room to get better at something. But that's, you know, personally me. So that's why I look to the arts and be like, okay, I need a hitch, hitch, hitch. And plus, you know, kind of going back to the Asian American thing to, as a minority, you need to work twice as hard. as a typical white person to make it in the industry.
So even though I technically am not really in the industry yet, I feel like I'm already behind, you know? So that's why I'm doing all this catch-up stuff. This is why I'm trying to make myself kind of like a jack of all trades to make sure I'm able to hit here if I need to be, hit here if I need to be, hit here, hit here, just so you can make it in, you know? So that's why I really appreciate this opportunity to sit down and look around. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Chow
And it's like, opportunity is always interesting because like some people, they just like wait for it to come. But I feel like what you're doing is you're like, no, I'm not going to wait for it. I'm going to get good at a lot of different things. I'm going to learn about a lot of different things. So maybe even go out and seek it, seek an opportunity, but whenever you're presented with one, you're like, hey, I got this already. Let's go. Yeah. Totally. And like, I think, you know, opportunity is what's the quote is like, opportunity is when some block meets preparation, something like that. I forgot that.
Something like that. But yeah, and then like you, well, like you said, like the whole progress thing. People get stuck in like being trying to be perfect. I know I do that too. I'm like, man, I'm dumb, dumb, damn it. But then you realize, well, yeah, you can just improve and get better. And I think that's fun. The process of getting better at something is always.
Johan Casal
Yeah, exactly. Just like I was totally separate. Math is not my thing. But I was struggling so hard this past week, trying to learn math by myself. But then, you know, getting the help from other people, it does become more fun because you do understand them and you want to go, oh, this is kind of cool now, you know what I mean? So that's that power, yeah. That's that power of knowledge, you know.
Eric Chow
I read something recently that said, when you're not interested in something, that's how you know you should learn more about it. Because you become interested. as you know more about something. Like think about this, anything that you are interested in, anything that you're not interested in, do you know a lot about it? Probably not. Yeah. Anything that you're interested in, you probably know a lot, right? Yeah. So, you know, it's very simple. Just learn about the things that you're really not into. Yeah. And most of the time, I don't know about, I wouldn't put a percentage on it, but a lot of the time you'll find that.
as you get good at something. I'm pretty sure I finished my thought but quite frankly if I didn't I lost the train of thought.
Johan Casal
It was some, you know, just like getting better at something or like learning about stuff that you're not interested in but something like that, right?
Eric Chow
Yeah, I mean that's really what it is. Yeah, you know exactly. Like the way I see it is that like even though I'm not interested in it, will it have any impact? in anything that I'm doing. So I think that's another question to ask yourself, whether it's useful in the lineup or that you may or may not be doing it too. So yeah. But that's a really interesting way to put it. I've never, it's like the Cully right about that. It's exactly what I'm doing. It's a trouble book I read. I can't even take credit. I read it recently. In fact, you know what, let's take the conversation that way.
What have you been doing, sort of just keeping yourself sane? Because, you know, I've been listening to podcasts, I've been reading as well every day. Those are two things I've been doing, and of course, plenty other things. What have you been up to? Just sort of keeping yourself sane and delving into things?
Johan Casal
one of like the best things that I learned just like the experience in college It's just plan your days out have a daily plan and Get things to cross out of the day because for me the first week of like online I was like wait, what's happening? Is this still going on? It will I mean I could be doing this right now. I should be doing this right now, but I'm at privilege So come to like the second week. I have I done here's my daily to do this here's what's gonna happen in the week because what I want to do today and that feeling of crossing something off is so helpful.
So that's just kind of like a baseline but more specifically, you know, catching up on a lot of movies that I haven't watched. I watched like about five movies over this break so far. What else? Also been learning dances. I think if you know me, you see me more of like a contemporary dancer but foot me. I'm really on this journey as a dancer to become well-versatile. So I've taken these steps during quarantine to get more rooted in kind of the pop genre, the urban genre, and like learning stuff like popping, house footwork, that type of thing, groups. So learning something that I wouldn't really be learning when I'm learning dance at San Francisco State.
So kind of expanding my horizons. So yeah, a lot of movies, dads in here just like daily scheduling. It's really been helpful to kind of go throughout my days. And also just having something to look forward to. It's funny to me that you mentioned.
Eric Chow
Yeah, that one's a good one. It's funny to me that you mentioned planning your day because I was just thinking about this before we hopped on this call. I was like, man, I had nothing planned for this morning and the entire morning, I haven't done anything that useful. I just, I ate food, which is good. That's always a good first time. That's always, always exactly. But everything else was like, I did some reading, so I was like, that's good. But like, I wasn't, it's probably not the most useful thing I could be doing. And I was like, and some days I actually have a very good planned out day.
And I find that those days are the ones that I'm like, let's go. I'm hyped. Yeah. And then like this morning it's like, I didn't do shit.
Johan Casal
And I'm like, fuck. Yeah, it's so cool seeing that difference of what just planning a day can do or what it can feel so cool by totally how those days do.
Eric Chow
Yeah. Yeah. I don't even, I don't even chase like the actual getting things done anymore. That's cool and all. I chase the feeling, the satisfaction of feeling productive. Yes. Like it's not even like, oh, I did all this today. It's like, no, I felt productive and that's good.
Johan Casal
That's good enough for me. No, I miss different grades. Yeah.
Eric Chow
And then I like the, the, I'm a we've been talking, I think this is probably going to be a theme of the podcast at this point, which is expanding horizons and just like, yeah, exploring new things and. Now is a great time to be doing it especially if you're stuck at home and you have the internet and I mean I know yeah, oh man dude this whole situation would suck we have internet. Oh my god, this would be miserable.
Johan Casal
It's a really good time to kind of take a step back and just you know I'm grateful for a lot of things and I'll be appreciative because a lot of people are really struggling or as for me I'm struggling to get homework done sometimes, but you know it's not the biggest problem for other people. It's worth it. It's nice to take a step back. You know what? I'm glad to have this opportunity to even be using a laptop to talk to you.
Eric Chow
So, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I keep saying this when I'm talking to people, like just catching up, and I'm like right now, and obviously the classic question of like, how are you doing? And I'm like, Honestly, given the circumstances, I'm doing wonderful, man. I'm doing wonderful. I can't complain. My life is better than a lot of people right now. So I'm really happy. And it's like, like you said, it's like you're grateful you take a moment to stop and you think, like, hey, like, I'm doing pretty good right now. I mean, if this wasn't under quarantine, I'd probably be miserable because I'm like, I want to go outside. But since I can't, it's like, all right, whatever. Yeah.
Johan Casal
Well, I think we should talk a little bit about communication since that was the topic. Oh my gosh. I think that'll I think we should do it.
Eric Chow
It was a crazy thing. Goodness to you. Actually, I don't know.
Johan Casal
Really?
Eric Chow
Yes. Let me tell you what. Well, I'll cut it out. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Hi, this is an interjection from me as I'm editing this podcast. We decided not to cut it out.
Johan Casal
It's crazy because so you know this past week you just take time and I'm like look like reflect on the past So I was like oh I've been thinking a lot about this one person who happens to him with a difficult person conversation and you know the When I hop into the call I'm like oh he's here Then I realize oh he's talking about communication and a difficult person conversation And then he's like okay, I'm pretty good you guys into breakout groups first person I see in my breakout group A difficult person conversation. No way! And I'm like, yeah, well, that's the triple synchronicity right there.
So I was like, wow. Yeah. That was crazy. That's awesome. I was like, that was, it was so funny because I was like, I kind of don't want him. I hope he's out of my group. First person I see, you know?
Eric Chow
Yeah, no, no hard feelings of them, those. Communication when we did have a difficult person conversation that was pretty good felt like I said when he needed to say He said what he needed to say So like we're cool each other now, but he's living his life over there I'm living my life here you've grown so it's not like you know how you feel and so effort It was just a way coincidence that we're talking about this topic you're here I was thinking about you the other day. I kind of want to leave that in. Honestly. Fuck. I think the interesting thing about being on the tripping call for communication and in the context of right now, he's so right that it's harder to do communication in person, but we have something like Zoom.
I don't know about you man. I actually did the math of the other day Like probably like earlier this week just to figure out how many hours I've spent on zoom during this quarantine. Mm-hmm, bro. I'm pretty sure I've at this point that was like way earlier this week, but I'm pretty sure I'm like above 60 hours at this point 60 maybe 70s now I'm like just because just during this quarantine and I'm like dang man I spent like three days on zoom Yeah, so it's so weird. I've spent less time on social truthfully I don't know why I'm not really sure why I don't know if it's me being more productive and doing other things or if it's me avoiding it or I don't know Maybe I should think about that but yeah like the whole communication thing and then talking about also like having those difficult conversations.
I love the one thing that was brought up which was like just trying to do the best you can and you're doing it just for your own like piece that like, hey, I tried. Yeah, even without like big going so perfectly, you're like, hey, I did what I needed to do. I reached out. I did my thing.
Johan Casal
And hey, that's awesome. Yeah, that was a really good feeling because I know for me it was so hard. Yeah, it was so hard to even attempt to contact that person. So what I did, I was like, wow, okay, you took the first step, it's not done yet, but you did that. That was a good feeling. And then after it, I felt so good too. It's like an inner like, yes! Yeah, it's like, oh, you finally jumped, I'm like, oh me now. Oh. It was not so bad at all. I feel so good after that top two. Like, yeah, I did it. And maybe it wasn't the outcome that I wanted or was it?
I honestly don't remember. But like, I just remember feeling so good about it, you know? I think something that I wanted to share before he cut off the limit, he was like, we're gonna end it here. I was like, okay, is that I remember him telling me When I was like just so afraid to he was like I feel like you're afraid because you're holding on to a specific outcome that you want to so it would be beneficial bringing to kind of understand and practice the idea to Honestly surrender to whatever outcome happens and I feel like that was what pushed me to even make the call to communicate with that person And yeah, that's probably another reason why I felt so good after the conversation too, is because I just surrendered to it.
Eric Chow
Like, yeah. Yeah, 100%. Surrendering to the not even like, surrendering the idea is like it has to work out perfectly. Yes, exactly. That's really, yeah. And then, you know, you're kind of touching on something I said yesterday, which is again, when I read and not like my own person has done or anything. Be sure. Maybe I should maybe I should just reword it and say it's mine.
Johan Casal
Yeah, but it's like this part of the podcast out. So Eric, what's your personal wisdom that you have to tell me that you made up yourself?
Eric Chow
Yeah, I definitely didn't get from anywhere. Yeah. I said action is the antidote to fear. Action is the end of the year which is you know kind of touching on what like what you're saying like yeah, you know, it was like you're afraid of it and you're like, I Don't know But then you just do it and you're like man it really wasn't that bad Really wasn't yeah Again, I need to figure out how to make that my personal wisdom Movement is a way to make sure you're not afraid anymore
Johan Casal
Just do it. Literally. Yeah. Hey, hold on to another copyright. You're right. Damn it.
Eric Chow
Imagine if you had to credit everything. You know how in English papers when you say something, you have to be like, oh my god.
Johan Casal
You have to be like, just do it. Nike. Yeah. Stop talking from here.
Eric Chow
For real every time you say fuck you have to be like Samuel L Jackson What are we talking about next week again? You can make that a little mini topic. It's such a like, I feel like that's such a like, it's a topic where it's like sometimes it could be like really fun. It's like, it's so funny. Like sometimes I'll end up with those conversations and I'm like, man, this is dope.
Johan Casal
And the other times I'm like, you know what that asks you like shit right now. You got some 75% of the time. Oh wow, that's a high percentage. Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like, what was I going with this? I think for me, I'm totally clear on the understanding that with love, you shouldn't be finding your other half, and that you should be complete with yourself. And that your saying that the other is not so much of a fail-ending boy. Like, I'm really good at noticing that within myself, and if I do want to a poor partner, and the idea of just loving yourself first.
What's hoping to kind of want to bring up is that maybe next week. Yeah, I do have that within me and I do love myself. But at the same time, when there's constant rejection, it just makes you kind of rethink about for yourself. And does that kind of go back into, oh man, does that mean I don't love myself? But I do love myself. Then it's just that mean I'm not ready for a relationship. then it just goes down and we have the hole and it's just like, oof.
Eric Chow
Yeah. You know what? This is something I think about a lot. I think the big issue a lot of people have and it creates a lot of different problems is problems with self-esteem. Because it's like, you know, one, if you're insecure, it's going to lead to certain things. But also, I think when people hear self-esteem, they're like, oh, but what about arrogance? Like, there is such a thing as being too confident, you know? Yeah, over overconfident or arrogant and actually I I disagree with that idea I think that is also in security. I think it's just disguised insecurity. It's just putting up an act to disguise your own insecurity.
And so I think that's ridiculous right off the bat, but I think that self esteem really just creates everything like it's like, yeah, you know, you love yourself and you're like, Hey, you know, if I get rejected, I get rejected. But at the same time, yeah, you're right. Like Hey, what if I get rejected so many times and you're like, okay, now is there something wrong with me? I think that's where humility comes in. It's like, hey, you know, maybe there is something that is not so that's not very, you know, good about me that people that's, you know, turning people away. And I think that's such an important thing to realize. Like the balance of confidence and humility to me has always been.
Johan Casal
That's wow. That's really good. Yeah important I never play like that before not to really get way to put it.
Eric Chow
I think that one I do think I can take credit for as my personal I think that's my personal that's because that one's That was a good one.
Johan Casal
I really should be right in the court.
Eric Chow
You should Yeah, yes That was mine. I'm taking credit on that one
Johan Casal
I think it goes self-esteem. For me, it really kind of goes back. I mean, so kind of being an artist because and having that confidence in yourself too, because a lot of the times it's like, as an artist, there's always going to be someone better than you. Anything that's been difficult for me to grasp. And I'm naturally a competitive person. But I'm also a pretty supportive person. I love supporting people. So it's like a double H soi. It's like, oh, I'm so happy for any buts like, what can I do with that?
Eric Chow
So I feel like that concept could be applied to that too. And just like the terms of, you know, you do you in a way. And what you do is just as good as what anybody else does. And you only created that problem because it's in your mind. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It's just all in your own mind, really. I think when you start sharing that competition, it can be motivating. I love that. When you get to compete with somebody for like that, just for fun and it can be really motivating. It's like a friendly rivalry. That's always like a awesome thing. But at the same time, it kind of just pushes you a little bit.
Yeah, 100%. And at the same time it's like trying to avoid the whole negative side of it. Break it a little overboard. The part where it's like you just like hate the other person. Exactly. Exactly. And so it's like, like you said, like being supportive, but also being like, screw you, I want to be. Yeah. Like, I don't know how to do this. I'm pretty satisfied with this conversation. I don't really know where I feel like this.
Johan Casal
Yeah, feels good to just kind of. Right there. And we don't need a plan. Yeah, we don't need a plan.
Eric Chow
Yeah. Yeah. Right. See, this is what I'm saying, man. I wing it. I don't need a plan. I just cut out the clip of us saying plan your day. And cut it back. You know what?
Johan Casal
Planning is really good. Cuts back to this. You can plan it all through contradiction.
Eric Chow
See, see, we... We plan the day. We don't plan the specific thing.
Johan Casal
You know, let's see. It's fine. We're not conducting ourselves.
Eric Chow
It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any, you know, the way I like to end episodes is, um, well, first, let's say this, anything you want to add?
Johan Casal
I think so. Really. I'm good. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Eric Chow
For the for the fight what I call like my the final word which is like the last last little thing reflecting on our Our long or so conversation because it's been about an hour What do you think is the big couple ideas? That that you want to stress to an ought to the audience like based on this episode Or anything that you're just noticing or thinking about lately.
Johan Casal
Wow, I think, like, just to always keep pushing. You could always strive to be better. There's no such thing as done. It's always work in progress. You're never perfect at anything. You're always getting better at something. And if you like that something, or you want to stress to people. And that also kind of something... I touched upon at the end maybe to just, you know, you do you try not to always compare yourself to others because I feel like comparison is the most detrimental thing to kind of your group. So what do you realize it within yourself? How well you do it, you can only go further than that.
And just, you know, continue expanding your horizons on things. Keep your brain active as you know. It's always a good way to feel good.
Eric Chow
Brilliant. It's funny. It's funny whenever I say the final word. It's always funny because you know, I'm the host. So it's like it's really, this job is really easy for me. The final word, I just let you do all that. It's fucking phenomenal. And then, and then you don't even, you have the best part. It's even easier because right after, I have to say something. And it's always one of two things. Number one, I take whatever my guest said. And I'm like, man, that's a great idea. And I share something on that. Or two, I just say, brilliant. Good job. Because I'm like, I got nothing to add. That's perfect. And this is the second one. But either way, it's always so easy for me because I don't do shit.
Johan Casal
This is my strategy. You really play on your desk, man.
Eric Chow
I got a lot of tricks. I got 30 episodes.
Johan Casal
I got a lot of stuff. 30 episodes. Exactly. This wouldn't have happened. 25. No, no, I'm probably not. Only 30. This is where it is. This is exactly. Is this like an anniversary? Can we make this an anniversary episode?
Eric Chow
Okay. Hold on. Let's do it. Today is the 11th. Okay, so I started the podcast August. This is, this part is not in the episode. Stop recording. We don't need this. We're good. Stop recording. Yeah, you can stop recording.
Johan Casal
And cut. Yeah. Don't forget to leave a like, comment, and subscribe. Follow me on Instagram. At your long song. No, and cut.
Eric Chow
Hi everybody, just want to say thank you for listening through episode 30 of the podcast really quite amazed I get to say that I've made 30 episodes also really happy with having my guest Johan on this episode lots of fun with him and As always you can find his social media links in the episode description and you know what message Him message me at underscore chow Eric on Instagram and Twitter. Let us know what you thought of the episode. Let us know if you enjoyed it. I think we would both appreciate getting that message. I hope you guys are staying well. Hope you guys are staying home and hope this episode was entertaining, interesting and valuable and insightful and you know...
maybe this episode is helping you stay sane during this quarantine and that would certainly be pretty cool for me since podcasts have been doing that for me this past month. So yeah, really, really quite happy with this episode. Really hope you guys enjoyed it and stay tuned because episode 31 is coming soon. But until then, have a fantastic rest of the day.