Discussing Art, Music, Film, and Dance
Host: Eric Chow · Guests: Nadia Laswi and Rom Rivera · August 14, 2019 · Episode 2 · 38 minutes
Transcribed from the episode audio and edited for names and terms. Speaker labels are assigned automatically and can occasionally place a line with the wrong speaker; the episode itself is the record.
Eric Chow
What is up everybody? Welcome back to the Eric Chow Empowers Podcast. This episode is a very special episode because we actually have guests on the show today. For this episode, I sit down with my dear friends Nadia Law-Suite and Rom Rivera, and we talk about art, particularly in music. dance and film. And that's because ROM has been dancing for many years and even participates in some local competitions. Nadia is quite the expert on films and well everyone listens to music. We also expand our discussion to look at what art is, the appreciation of our animals and their relationship to art, the meaning of colors and so much more.
This was my very first episode with guests on and I had so much fun with Nadia and Rong on this one. Without further ado, this is the episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is episode two. She was like, it's my favorite movie. So you better watch it. She gave me a CD for Winter Break and I literally wrote her a one page essay. And then, Ron, you've been dancing for years and you say you think about art a lot. So that's just something that I felt like we could talk about.
Guest
I just want to say, Inception is like the perfect movie for an audio. Because it's like the way the director is designed it is like the audience is only Nadia's. Because when Adi watches the movie, she likes to not watch the movie at all and watch everything else about the movie. I'll take that as a compliment. It is. That's very true though. When I watch a movie with people, I often just talk the entire time. And I don't care if they're bothered by it or not. I just want to talk. I'm like, did you see that? Or what do you think that means? So you can't even lie. You like the movie there, right?
Eric Chow
I did. I did like the movie. I did indeed like the movie. I watched the whole thing. It would not have been possible if I didn't like the movie to write that whole. I'm gonna do a page. And okay, so it was funny because we were joking about me writing an essay about the movie. We were joking about it and she was like jokingly threatening me that I have to write one. But I was just like, if I, you know, I'm just not gonna do it. And then I watched it and I was like, oh actually this is not that hard to write something. So I just literally, right after I watched the movie, put the CD away and went upstairs to my computer.
Guest
Like I just started typing and sent it randomly.
Eric Chow
And I was like, wait, you actually did it.
Guest
So yeah, it was a good movie. I enjoyed it. Yeah. I also bugged Ron a lot to watch. I remember even junior year, I told him to watch the Truman Show. It's a good show. Or it's a good movie. I was like it's so good you have to watch it, you need to do it and then you came back to the next day and he was like, the best movie I've ever seen. And that was before you were even like close friends but as you can see I just recommend it to everybody like anybody who will listen I'll just tell them to watch it. I don't know, I just think it's right.
Like listening to the entire story that compared to like a novel medium. Unless you know Ron wants to tell me I'm wrong and be like I'm gonna dance. He can totally like tell a story.
Eric Chow
Well, well, I mean you can tell the story with dance. I'm sure I'm sure Ron knows this and in my Hours spent in the black hole that is YouTube I've seen some pretty amazing dances that literally tell stories and so yeah, absolutely so free both of you I think is this story that is kind of like the top thing for you when it comes to film, dance, whatever it is.
Guest
Is it a story that kind of is king? Like are you asking what makes art appealing? I think for me personally, yeah, but like what is art, right? Like, because people talk about like, like, okay, one different shooting factor between like, I guess sports and art is, or like sports and like dance is the art factor like there's a lot of people with play sports like oh yeah my sports in art but then what does that entail when you say something is an art? I think for me the art of like art is not only the story of also the style which makes it artistic like sports versus art would be it's not random everything's more intentional so it has a style and like personal style depending on the artist and I think that's kind of what makes it because like it has a meaning.
Eric Chow
So this summer I actually took art history course. One of the things that my professor was telling me was he actually had a four-part definition for art. Now I'm not gonna lie, I forgot it. One of the things was literally like the medium of the art, whether it's painting, film, dance, whatever it is, fits the message that is trying to be portrayed and is the most effective way to send that message. So even just for what I do. do I want to make an Instagram post an article, a video or a podcast? So different forms are better for different things. And so yeah, I agree with that part of the definition.
And then the other thing I remember was I mean, for sports, most sports is there really like a deeper meaning in sports like, you know, no disrespect. I don't know what the story is when you're tackling a dude for a ball. I don't know if there's a story there when you're racing and swimming or whatever, but for art there is some sort of maybe a story, maybe a message, some sort of takeaway that is there. And then, oh, a third one that's coming to me right now is like some sort of cultural meaning. So, you know, if it's Italian art, it might feature something about Catholicism, Christianity, for example, something like that, really relating to that.
Guest
I think one thing about art that's really cool is like as you're talking about like different platforms and stuff art platforms Like each I feel like each platform of art speaks to a different person like differently like music Nadia was talking about like She understands music as an art when she understands what the song means and then sometimes I don't even like care what the lyrics mean to a song It's just how I feel like if it makes me want to like jump or like go to sleep that's to me is like the mood of the art yeah yeah is that just for music or for other art as well for you i mean for music especially i think music is definitely like a stronger influence but like i find that in other forms of art i'm like i'm receiving other like different emotions too when you dance you're gonna have emotions when you're dancing as well yeah I think dancing is different because if you ask an actor like oh in like a crying scene like oh snap like how are you so good at crying like did you fake it they'll say no like they use they retrieved emotions from the past and that's what a good actor does and with dancing it's kind of the same in a sense where you have to be able to be in touch with their emotions and like retrieve them for the sake of a performance or or dance in that sense I forced myself to cry by thinking of a sad moment
Eric Chow
I did it once I failed the second time and I don't exactly like trying it so But like yeah, it's totally the same I told him what you're saying like thinking of like a sad moment or a happy moment or whatever it is you're trying to do Oh, yeah, there's like if our has ability to make you feel emotions then it can make you feel like Motions people don't like or it can make you feel disgusted too
Guest
Yeah, which would I guess would be but isn't that in a way like what if that is the intention?
Eric Chow
Well, because while you were saying that I was like well, you know, sometimes you want a piece that has anger Hate that sure but and even discuss to you. Yeah, I was about to say like well, maybe you know discuss it's kind of different who wants to feel disgusted But you know sometimes that is a message that needs to be out there
Guest
like in the gore movies where you know it's like bloody and disgusting but people still they love it in fact and it doesn't even just like it they love it and um I don't know and there's like even confusion like it seems confusing but maybe that's the point yeah so is it really that's true I guess now the way I gauge if something is bad is the intention behind it yeah like if something is just you get a piece of paper you just put a bunch of things together In that sense, I would say it's bad art because there's not that much intention. But if someone purposely did that to embrace a feeling or to give a certain vibe, then that would make sense as to why that's not bad art.
Yeah, I agree. It's intentional. But in that sense, it's not even bad. It's just not intentional, right? And just because you don't understand what the artist was intending to make you feel through the art, does that make it bad art? Or if it just makes it not for you?
Eric Chow
I feel like that makes a bad communication on artists part.
Guest
Because it can't be communicated in a conventional way. Yeah, that's crazy. It's not a thing about it. Like, kids will appreciate their own art because they're like on the same level as like if you consider like, let's say like drawing, right? But the parents will be like, like they'll appreciate it, of course, but they won't take it seriously. Like that's like, if we all, if we all sound like our kids are like, come on, that's weird. But then like, but then to other kids, like in their. level, they're like, whoa, that's cool. And it's like a guy with like five arms or something. I mean, I'm not even a lot like when I see like Picasso painting or something, like it's a Picasso, like of course, it's like beautiful like artistic, like so much skill, whatever.
But like you look at it and it's like, it's ugly. It's ugly. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It does not like please make it. Maybe it wasn't supposed to go up. What I thought about a lot with art at first, I didn't really. Appreciate that part of it. Like I would just judge it so harshly, but then you have to think about like Maybe that's not the point, right?
Eric Chow
Yeah, and so for me with my art class our first unit was the Italian Renaissance and We would be looking at like some art pieces and I'm like Why do I care? You know, I'm just looking at like okay This is a painting of two random people that literally have never existed in history. Like what am I what are we doing here? And then I learned like all these are actually two big figures in Catholicism. I'm like, oh, okay. Well, that makes a little more sense. Or I'll be looking like a building. Like it's a building with a dome on top. And so it's a big dome.
Like cool, man. But then they'll start. He starts, okay, well, actually, this is a really crazy thing because it was architecturally impossible to make. No one could figure out how to make this. And literally rain would like be pouring into this building because they couldn't figure out how to put a dome up there. And then some person blah blah blah history and then I was like, okay, you know, that's actually pretty cool. That's pretty amazing. Like, okay, wow, I can't do that. Like that's that's impressive, very impressive. So it's about understanding that background, which most people probably don't get to understand at some certain times.
Guest
Do you think you'd have to be able to like understand it or be educated enough to understand art in order to like have that appreciation for it? or do you think it's possible or not possible but just as likely I guess someone that doesn't have all that extra information could still have the same perception of it I guess? I guess I guess I guess we're asking I think what makes art cool is like the freedom of it like people can perceive or receive art in different ways like you said you didn't have context before and did it make sense but once you got some context of that one building, it kind of opened appreciation for it.
And I think that's what makes it special, right? Like, if everyone appreciated something like the same way, it removes the freedom that art gives. It's about our own interpretation of it. It's still, that's still it.
Eric Chow
Yeah, because everyone's going to have different views.
Guest
And I think like... Let's say you think something stupid you're there's another art form out there. That's like well This is amazing and someone else can like but this is stupid.
Eric Chow
So it's really just everyone has different tastes right? Yeah, I mean like I'm just thinking about like those modern art museums or they just like draw like a line spray tape That's nothing there that someone decided it's worth it to put it up in a museum Someone decided that I see nothing What do you think?
Guest
I don't know how that would marry a person. I don't know if I would even know. I mean culture probably has some sort of impact. I think it's just born with it. Let's like what's your favorite color? Right? Like are you born with like partly your tastes? And you already or is it just purely by influence?
Eric Chow
Like what's around? Whoa nature versus that's crazy. It's always a mix. Yeah, it's some kind of mix of that. I think it's like thirty five percent. Actually it's thirty four point eight.
Guest
I think what makes someone I guess like what develops their taste is like for art is how curious they are because like if you really think about it like most artists kind of dry so you're really curious about what's behind it or like its intention yeah if you're really like close-minded too you're just like yeah it has no value it's just you have to be able to like interpret something out of it get some sort of value yeah that's what it's like everything is over Or nothing is art like one of the other right yeah, so we'll call qualify something as an art because everyone uses it as a word like everyone's like throwing around yeah, my job isn't art my blank is art and I'm in this car that we're in right now is an art I bet the maker of it just like well I was that was an art for me right so like I've used that definition before I've literally so what if my friends kind of a mentor for me he literally
Eric Chow
You know way kind of was like art is there anything we create anything like our memories are Friendships relationships are I remember I told me that I'm trying to remember anything you create. It's not what we create. It's like a sunset.
Guest
It's someone that's gonna bring a monitor. It's true. It's honestly blowing mine. I forgot about photography Because like when you it's just capturing a moment you didn't create that right you saw that vision for it What's she edits that?
Eric Chow
Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's crazy. That's literally what he was like thinking of it as a painting. It was something like, so it gave me a letter. Two sophomore year, oh sophomore year, he was graduating from Logan and he gave me a letter and he was just like laying out some advice for me and like some just some great feedback and stuff. And one of the quotes was like, you know what, no, I'm gonna pull it off. You guys can talk. I'm gonna pull it over.
Guest
This is unrelated, but wrong, I like your shirt. Thanks. It's because it has a polo. It's like, has a colored shirt. It's colored and has stripes. So what's your what's your guys favorite color cuz I think that's that maybe that'll like dive into our like my taste My hands brown I think brown is interesting though cuz like you're open to or the When I see multiple shades of brown, I like all of them, but I've seen multiple shades of red and like that's too bright. Like that's like barely even red or like for green. I only like certain shades of green and with brown. I only like brown when it's mixed with another color.
I only like brown when it's mixed with another color. Not mixed. Like next to another color. I think it makes the brown look nicer. Not mixed. I was like, wait, that's black.
Eric Chow
Yeah. So when you look at this bush outside, it's the green with the brown. Yeah. That's something you can appreciate it. The viewers are not going to miss that anything at all. Sorry guys. Why did I say viewers?
Guest
They're not watching anything. They're visualizing us. For me, the only qualification I guess to pick my favorite color was like my favorite one is gray because no matter what, gray, like I won't get sick of it. So I think the wall's red. I'm just gonna feel ten dollar depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending on the shape depending That just trips me up because it's just gray but shiny. It's just gray. Totally random thought.
Eric Chow
Sometimes I spell gray with an A and sometimes I put it with an E. Yeah, I have a hard time with that. I think it's because I read the song round off is really true.
Guest
But the gray with an A is for like America and gray with an E. Yeah, there's different words like that. One time I even put it in like just like a bit of an E.
Eric Chow
One time I even put both of them in like one sentence and one paragraph or something. Someone pointed out to me that I can probably wait. I was not changing that. I found some quotes from because I have a picture of the letter. Okay. Know that you are an artist. So this is a quote from my friend's letter. Know that you are an artist. Regardless of how else you see yourself, know that it is natural to create. We make friends of strangers. We make amends after conflict. We make decisions based on our free wills when language fails. So make memories like a painter, make strokes with brushes on a blank canvas, and create a masterpiece worth a lifetime.
Because your life's greatest work is your life itself. That is one of the deep sentences I've ever read in my life. But yeah. So that's kind of what he was telling me. And so literally by that definition to go back to art, it's literally anything we create. That's kind of how I decided to take it. Life is an art in a way. It is.
Guest
I don't know. Every time I try and every time I like think I have a different definition of art, it gets like... What's your name?
Eric Chow
Yeah, I get it. Someone else comes along like, no, what about this? Like, okay, you're right. You can't put it in a box. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I like it in a box. But you can, literally. Do you think animals think of art?
Guest
Like for example like a sunset if you consider that as art Do you think animals also appreciate that or like they think of it in the same way?
Eric Chow
I just imagine myself as a bird flying towards the sunset and I was just like I can't imagine a creature looking at that and not appreciating it but at the same time I don't know the birds brain works.
Guest
I feel like it's Well, I know animals have different preferences and tastes, right? But then humans have a specific power to create, right? So if animals, there probably isn't animal that creates, like, but not to the level that humans do. So if there's an animal out there that really does create and has tastes, then I believe they would have like an art that could affect them. Is it still art to them? Like is it considered art just because they can like move their trunk?
Eric Chow
I don't know. Right. Because if someone's training them to do it, it's more like I'm just doing a job for the sky.
Guest
Maybe it has inspiration or like art has to inspire in order to be art. Otherwise it's just not art.
Eric Chow
I think it also goes back to part of the definition that I learned in my class. The cultural part. The elephant. It's not really a cultural message there when he's painting or he or she is painting but for a human there's that culture of whatever in the painting and so that makes it an artistic piece for humans not for the animal my professor would be so proud of me.
Guest
When we were talking about color it reminded me of this thing called synesthesia or synesthesia. I don't really know what you want to know.
Eric Chow
What ever one I've never heard of this.
Guest
So it's basically where certain people have like a very strong correlation Sometimes it's with numbers it's common or words where for example someone will have like a very strong correlation where every time they see the number two it just like it reminds them of the color green or like whatever other color and so it can even be like with people's names just have a certain color to them or shade of color And I don't know which is really really interesting to me and I was recently I recently found out that Frank Ocean is a musician He he has it and so one of his albums is called Channel Orange and that's like a very specific shit like when you see that orange like that's Frank Ocean Orange, you know, like it's just gonna like stuck there and he says it's because that album was kind of inspired by like a certain time of his life like a certain I think the summer And like that shade of burns just like reminds him of the emotions that went with it and that's why he And I don't know, it's just really interesting.
Eric Chow
That's crazy. That's insane. So I don't know if anything's coming off of you, but just something random that I'm remembering right now. I was watching MasterChef a long time ago. It was a blind chef. That one this went on to what what win the show Completely she's blind like she's literally walking up to the podium with like a lady. That's like guiding her there her name was Christine high I think something like that and One of the judges comes up and tastes the dish that she made it was Joe Bastionich and he was like You know I imagine that when you cook you see things and I realized that were pretty similar in that way because when I drink wine I see things and I think he was saying colors as well so I'm thinking it it's only with wine for him but for the chef I mean she's cooking blind and it's coming out delicious so it's interesting to me that's just something random that's talking to my head I don't know she has that but it's just kind of connected that's crazy it's been really curious like us to why like
Guest
your brain makes certain connections like why that color for that thing right that's true it's just so interesting and like why do only some people have it like I want it what if it's I feel like it might be like off you see the number to use but then it's like written in pain that can't see wall like is that just like it's just one right I think that explains why people have it from preferences though for sure like we just can't explain it yeah maybe it's just connections that are there for me The neurons are just like hey, like it. Let's pair it up.
I feel like the color and numbers thing is so interesting though because then that would mean like that would make math way more intentional than it is like imagine just looking at some math and it's like it comes out to a picture of like something crazy. Oh, that's not crazy.
Eric Chow
That makes everything like I'm just actually want to focus whiteboards and then seeing a painting and I'm like, it's crazy. Okay, back to connection. So for Frank Ocean when he said orange, would he be picturing orange as he was singing his song? So would that be attached to the words?
Guest
Or would that be attached to maybe be? Certain colors are like assigned to certain like things in our world how like green means get all red means stop or like red means danger yellow means Yield or insanity or like all these random things Blooming sad like size who?
Eric Chow
I can trip it blooming joy Yeah, I like everyone follows it I don't know. I don't know.
Guest
It's crazy. In colors. I thought YouTube video once.
Eric Chow
Like of like the of how like I don't know movie people.
Guest
It is the side of this is the worst movie ever created. And the reason why was because the reason why was because there was like no pattern that was like followed that followed through with the plot and it made no sense. And I feel like that. comes in that also kind of makes sense with the music. Like what makes music appealing is if it follows a certain pattern, it's with certain repetitions of music. Like if you visually saw like notes in a line, there has to be parts where they match up somewhere. And if it's completely random, it's like kind of sounds ugly. I think that works with R2, but then some art is like completely random, so I have no idea.
It's like two. Yeah, but if like... If it's consistently abstract then there is a pattern. So then order versus chaos. Yeah. Actually from the scene, uh, podcast that I heard before we learned that Frank Ocean had that, um, synesthesia. Um, they also talked about one of his songs, uh, pyramids. I don't think he has no way. It's like nine. Oh, it's really. Yeah, it's very like unconventional throughout like, I'm not just like a, right? But, um, what's crazy about it is they were describing that. the way the notes look on the music sheet actually form what looks like the shape of a pyramid. And I was so shocked when I heard that.
That's just me, that's on now. Because it's actually, it sounds like you hear the notes and to think that it looks like a... Yeah, it's so intentional, right? Like you don't do that on accident. And it's like not only is the music is normally... Experienced through noise only but it's like a visual part part of it too. And he made that into a song. Yeah, that is just like that's in the right now. Like this guy's above me. Like he's a butt like I don't know what letter it was.
Eric Chow
That is genius. Yeah, and I'm just thinking about like I've looked at plenty of music and I'm like, how did he make a song out of a freaking pyramid? I'm gonna see if I can put it at the end of this episode I'm gonna see if I can find a clip off Spotify and put it at the end of this episode I should be able to link it but we'll see Nadia Rong thank you so much for coming in on this podcast episode.
Guest
Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. I just kind of helped along. It was kind of funny.
Eric Chow
Alright, that is the episode guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. to what is the longest episode so far. This one was nearly 40 minutes. The introductory episode was what? 12. The other one was like 10 minutes. So thank you so much for listening through this episode. The fact that you're listening to this part right now means so much to me. So please let me know if you actually did listen to the end. So I can thank you personally. I also want to give a huge shout out to my dear friends Nadia and Rong for joining me on this episode. It was so much fun for me to be able to sit down and chat with them a little bit.
And it was also kind of nice because instead of just me talking and actually having to figure out what I'm going to say, it was actually more like a conversation which I think is even better and I dearly... dearly deeply enjoyed it and I hope you guys did too listening to our conversation on art Look my whole thing is I want to be able to empower people to live lives better and I want people to be curious and Constantly want to learn and grow that's what we're doing with this podcast and that's what this episode was being curious and discussing ideas I hope you guys learned something.
I hope it was interesting to you guys just as it was for me Let me know if you like the topic. Let me know also if you liked having Nadia and Rom joining me in this episode because I would love to have them again. This was also the first episode where I've actually had guests on. So there was a little bit of confusion behind the scenes of this recording that made it a little more interesting, but... I think once we got the conversation going, once we figured out how to do the recording, it turned out pretty well, I think. If there are some audio changes in volume and stuff, that's my fault.
We're still trying to figure out how this all works, but I think it's good enough for you guys to get everything you need. Right after this. Pyramids by Frank Ocean. There's gonna be a little clip from that. So listen in on that and then you can go to Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube or wherever to listen to the rest of the song Pyramids by Frank Ocean, which Nadia talked about in the episode. Guys, thank you again so much for tuning in. Please send me your thoughts, underscore Chower, Instagram and Twitter. Nadia and Ron's information will be in the episode description. Alright guys, without further ado, here is Pyramids and thank you for listening to episode 2.